Yes, it is intriguing that both Giles Carter instant came from the same general area of Gloucestershire and arrived in Henrico. However, there appears to be a wide disparity between the two as noted above ... and yet ... look at the flow of the names in the second column! A summary of the Joseph Carter Hypothesis (first column proven, second column guesses down to Theodor). These are all in Gloucestershire, just several miles from each other to the immediate west of Stow-on-the-Wold:
Gen 1: Giles of Badgeworth d. 1585 ............. mentions brother Thomas of Badgeworth, n.f.i.
Gen 2: John of Nether Swell d. 1625.............. Thomas 2. or Robert 1. ........ these really Raise the Ante
Gen 3: Giles of Cold Aston d. 1666 ............... Theodor of Cirencester ........... they are the complete mix
Gen 4: ........ no children ................................. Giles of Henrico d. 1701 ........... of names found in Henrico
Gen 5: .......................................................... Giles, Thomas & Theodrick
The ancient Roman town of Cirencester is some twenty miles southwest. Thing is, Joe has dug up another Three Party Deal to show that Lucy Tracy, another daughter of Sir Paul, was married to Bray Ayleworth in Cirencester! Curious ..... tantalizing ..... but we still need a Carter to Stratford marriage in Cirencester!
Abstract of GenForum posting of Joseph Carter on 8 Feb 2004:
"Gyles Carter 1585 of Badgeworth and seeing in the Will that his wife was Margarett and they had a son Named John Carter that was married to Mary Lawrence and it states John Carter and His Heirs Male lawfully begotten of the body of a Mary Lawrence ..... He gives to his Brother Thomas Carter his sister Agnes Holyday and a couple of other Sisters and to his son in law Thomas Machin of Cheltenham .....
[There is an Upper Swell, Lower Swell and Netherswell within a few miles of each other - with Cold Aston another few miles southwest of them - and then Badgeworth a few miles west of that. Do you remember those Dowrys?]
"Now we are at John Carter of Neather Swell's Will written in 1625 who wishes to be buried in the Church of Stowe ..... He gives to his son Giles Carter and this is the Giles Carter that was Married to Elizabeth Tracy as stated in His Inquisition Later..... The Above John Carter gave unto John Carter the eldest son of My John Carter ..... and John Sr. gave to his son William and to William's eldest son Edward ..... and to William's youngest son John listed as God-Son to John Sr...... Also gave unto John Broadway Eldest Son of My Daughter ..... gave unto John Moore eldest son to his daughter and to William Moore and to other Moore children ..... and John Sr. gives to Humphrey Coles gentleman his son inlaw and makes him his executor
[Clearly, there is no Thomas or Theodrick down at this level.]
"Now we come to John Carter Jr. of Charleton Abbotts who was the son of John Carter of Neather Swell and who is listed as John Carter the Older Of Charleton Abbotts ......
yadda, yadda, yadda .... dozens of descendants ..... he confused himself! John the Elder of Charlton Abbots was a son of John of Netherswell per his last entry above. There were subsequent nephews named Giles but they were not the ones to marry Tracy!
"Vic you are correct in saying that the Giles Carter married to Elizabeth Tracy was associated with the Tracy's before his marriage to Elizabeth. His Father John Carter's wife Mary Lawrence was the daughter of Robert Lawrence and Eleanora (Elinor) Stratford , Eleanor Stratfords Father Was John Stratford that was married to Margarett Tracy daughter of William Tracy , John Stratford's sister Alice was the Wife of Edmund Broadway , John Stratford's sister Margaret was the wife of Edward Baugh.
This set of marriages to the Tracy begins to explain the travels of John of Badgeworth from Pryton at Churchdown, to Netherswell, to Badgeworth itself. We still need to see any marriage of a Carter of Cirencester to a Tracy! And to a Stratford!
"I am still beleiving that it is also possible that Giles was from the Theodor Carter in Cirencester and that he may have been a descendant through Thomas Carter brother to Gyles and possibly through a son named Robert or Thomas ......... these Carter's also married into the Stratford family.
[Does the Robert, Thomas, Gyles combination sound familiar?]
Descendancy chart would be as follows: [absolutely contradicted by his GenForum posting of 8 Feb 2004:
Joe Carter on GenForum 20 June 2005 - Giles of Henrico son of John III - per above chart, this just can not be!
1. Gyles Carter of Badgeworth and wife Margarett. Gyles had a brother named Thomas who had a son named Anthony proven by the Wills. Thomas also had possibly a son named Thomas and Robert that I am still working on.I have Gyles will
2. John Carter of Neatherswell will written in 1625 and probated 1627 Wife Mary Lawrence she was the daughter of Robert Lawrence and Elinor Stratford (later Elianore Sankey). I have wills of all three we know John and Mary were married before 1584
3. John Carter of Charlton Abbotts the older wife Ann married by 1611 based on indenture his older brother was Giles Carter married to Elizabeth Tracy married by 1606 based on indenture no children by them his younger brother was William Carter married to Bridgett. William had two known sons John married to the daughter of Bray Aylesworth and Edward who was married to a Goddard.I have wills of John ,Giles,William,John and Edward.
4. John Carter of Charlton Abbotts the younger had sons named John and Gyles [** see LaVere Peters - since Theo as father of Giles instant is now rather proven, this would appear to be an uncle of Giles of Henrico] from the will of the older John
5. Giles Carter of Henrico.
Miscellaneous Notes from Google Searches:
In 1530, Sir William Tracy left a heretical Will, whereby he relied for his salvation on faith rather on the prayers of the Monks.
The marriage of the Tracy daughter to John Stratford of Farmcote built a long lasting relationship with business and friendship, and, together with Richard Tracy, John Stratford assisted in the Dissolution of Hailes Abbey. Richard's father being brought up at Bushley, by the Stratford's.
Richard Tracy acquired Stanway, at the Dissolution and his son Paul was created Baronet in the Reign of James the First, ( 1603 - 1625 ) and eventually passed to a younger son of Toddington. It is presently in the possession of the Earl of Wemys and March, who has a Tracy Pedigree.
William Tracy of Hailes, who was involved greatly with the Stratford's of Bushley, was one of the first to help in the Colonisation of America, through his connection with the Virginian Company and in the year 1620 Sir Paul was in partnership with John Stratford of London, growing tobacco in the Winchcombe area of Gloucestershire.
The Tracy Family history is a book on its own, and I will not attempt to pursue it further, except to state that when the Stratford family became financially estranged at Farmcote, it was Robert Tracy who bought the estate. Today's representative of this great Family is the Baron Sudeley.
Paul TRACY Birth: in Stanway,Gloucestershire,England Death: 1626 in Gloucestershire,England
Sir Paul Tracy, who succeeded to the manor of Stanway. He was created a baronet June 29, 1811,
[ ....... 1611 of course ..........] by King James I., "being the thirteenth created from the institution of the order." He married first, Anne, daughter and heiress of Ralph Sharkeley, of Ayno-on-the-Hill, County of Northampton. They had twenty-one children.
Father: Richard TRACY b: ABT 1493 in Tewkesbury,Gloucestershire,England Mother: Barbara LUCY
Marriage 1 Anne SHARKERLEY Children Elizabeth TRACY b: in Stanway,Gloucester,England [m.Giles]
The ancient manor of Stanway in the Cotswolds was presented to Tewkesbury Abbey in the year 715 by two Mercian leaders Odo and Dodo. It was the first and only remote property owned by the Abbey until the 12th century when land was acquired in Dorset. Stanway supported four monks.
In 1533 Richard Tracy, the younger son of Sir William Tracy of Toddington obtained the lease of the manor from Abbot Segar. Richard is known to have led the commission that dissolved Hailes Abbey and it was around this time that he was able to purchase the freehold to Stanway. It was his son Paul who rebuilt the house incorporating some of the early Tudor house in it. This work started in about 1580. Paul Tracy was created Baronet in 1611 and died in 1620. His son, Sir Richard Tracy, continued building and it was he who had the magnificent gatehouse erected in 1630. He died however in 1637.
Richard TRACY Birth: ABT 1493 in Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire,England
Death: 1569 in Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire,England Note: He had a B.A. from Oxford and was a reformer, author, sheriff, justice, royal commissioner and member of parliament 1529-36.
Father: William VIII TRACY ................ per above .............. Mother: Margaret THROCKMORTON
Marriage 1 Barbara LUCY Paul TRACY b: in Stanway, Gloucestershire, England
William of Toddington, married Throckmorton, (there were more than a fair share of William Tracy's) is the common ancestor of Paul and William Tracy who were both so active in the tobacco industry of both Gloucestershire and Virginia.
Forbush Family Info
8 years ago